Matt Steffanina breaks down why creators require an online community
From your basic top eight from Myspace to private Facebook Groups, we've all been a member of a group using social media. Over the years, social media platforms allow creators to create vibrant communities, both in private as well as through public comment.
With a growing array of challenges, social media is slacking as a community building tool and administrator it was once. As a result, creators and business owners everywhere are starting to notice its shortcomings for what they are.
The 2021 Facebook outage could be the reason behind the shift in mindset that began. A short six-hour period when the platform was down led small businesses and creators alike to lose access to their audience and website traffic, causing widespread revenue loss. A few reported losses that ranged from as $5,000 in dollars.
To better understand the significance of hosting a community on the back on social networks, we had a conversation with the community master online himself, Matt Steffanina. He is a world-renowned choreographer and the founder and owner of DNCR Academy.
Since the launch of the YouTube channel in 2009, Matt has grown a relatively small fan base of 30 million people across different platforms. He's known for dancing with artists such as Taylor Swift, Jason Derulo and Meghan Trainer, not to mention his appearances on TV shows such as So You Think You Can Dance.
Through his YouTube dancing tutorials as well as in-person classes, Matt formed a tight-knit community of enthusiastic dancers but after the outbreak of the flu and classes for #IRL were stopped, YouTube simply wasn't cutting it as a means to reach out to his followers and earn a living. Then he resorted to online courses as well as an online community to create a lasting impression on his audience and create an income stream that was sustainable.
Take a look at the Q&A of Matt to find out how he's grown his business to be wildly successful and also an online community--and why he believes this is the way to create taking control of their own future.
Note: Responses were lightly edited to improve clarity.
Send us an summary of your identity and the things you do.
Hello, my name's Matt Steffanina, and I'm a music producer and choreographer in L.A. But the last twelve years of my existence were mostly dancing and choreography. When I first started out in the business, I was as a dance instructor, but throughout the process, I was building my YouTube channel, posting video clips of my life, classes as well as my performances. In essence, I was following my journey, vlog style. One of the most difficult aspects of being a dancer, especially ten years ago is that you had to rely on your agent as well as the artists to provide opportunities. It was impossible to create opportunities for yourself as an individual dancer. In my early days I was always waiting at the end of the line for a chance to audition. Initially, [YouTube] became my way to stay productive and keep working on my skills, and also to market my dance career. I had no idea that it would do what it has done. In the year I was on, I grew about a million subscribers. That in the moment was quite a lot. From it, I ended being offered opportunities to work with Ja Rule, Taylor Swift, and Meghan Trainer.
But the other thing that I really loved was the teaching aspect. Early on I started an additional channel known as Dance Tutorials Live, where viewers could be taught how to dance. I built a following of dancers all around the world. What has been the most rewarding part of everything that I've done is listening to the tales of the students' accomplishments. They're truly incredible as, at the time, I was just filming tutorials in the local studio using my tripod. I didn't realize that I could make an impact at all, so it's been an interesting journey, to say the least.
Have you ever thought about your YouTube channel turning into what it is? Do you have plans to bring your channel to where it is now?
There's no way one could have predicted that it would do what it did. When I posted my first videos, it was from Virginia prior to my move from Virginia to L.A., and I wanted to find methods to be inspired and make connections with fellow dancers. In that moment, fourteen years ago I was one of the very first dancers to join the platform. I never could imagine what would happen. The channel now has thirteen million users and 3 billion views. The first time my video went viral, I remember comments from different countries, and the concept of someone viewing my video from a different country seemed unimaginable. I couldn't comprehend it however, now we're here, and I'm doing tours around the world due to the internet and the ability to put my dance on the web.
Let us go on a time-travel journey. What blew you up first? Was it YouTube? Did it become your job?
People always think that success in the mainstream and Hollywood business will result in the success of online advertising, however it actually converts less than one would imagine. When I did shows like the Tonight Show, So You Think You're a Dancer, The Amazing Race, and more--I received a variety of opportunities on television that were traditional, however, they didn't translate to long-term results. They were all short-term, but nevertheless, amazing.
What really gave me the endurance and the ability to continue this more than a decade later, is building a community.
The group really grew out of my dance tutorials, which was not planned, but was the most smart thing I did; being an excellent teacher and teacher in the field and pushing a community forward is something that's harder than being a good dancer. It was my efforts in the form of tutorials and teaching others online that led me to build a solid community which continues to thrive even to this day.
Can you take us on the journey of launching DNCR Academy? When did it turn into an actual company for you?
I created DNCR Academy right at the beginning of the pandemic. It was something I had wanted to do for many years for couple of reasons. It's a platform for subscriptions, where people can learn dance instructions. It's a more upscale experience than my YouTube videos. On YouTube, I upload [contentin a somewhat irregular manner, however, the quality isn't necessarily top-quality. With it, we can't invite numerous guests or even teachers. There are a lot of dancers who have been enjoying YouTube tutorials, and they're looking for more training. Therefore, I came up with DNCR Academy for the people who are more focused. Through it, I'm able to recruit great instructors like Bollywood shuffling, shuffling and dancing fitness instructors; styles that I'd never normally do on my own YouTube channel. On the platform [DNCR Academy] It's totally acceptable and amazing to be able to provide a variety of styles for our students. At the beginning of COVID I realized that I could not perform and that I would have the opportunity to devote my time to thisendeavor, and so we set aside some time and constructed the platform . It was the month of June in 2020. Then it's been 3 amazing three years. I thought we had a large community on YouTube however, this has taken the best of the solid community and put the people in an environment of bubbles. There is a lot of support for each other. In addition to having this support group that's studying with other people across the globe, but they also have an emotional network of friends that are pushing each other. It's just become something positive in my life, and I think for all dancers at DNCR as well.
Could you provide more information about the community , and what was the reasons behind starting DNCR? Did the community exist prior to the DNCR Academy, or did it come in conjunction with the Academy? Did you foresee that being an integral factor to the Academy's growth?
I felt really bad about COVID. It seems like a lot of people did. It was difficult to get inspired. Difficult to get into an exercise routine since you're in the house and you aren't able to access anything. Dance in particular is an activity that is a part of the community. It is possible to dance on your on their own, however the main thing that I enjoy about dancing is working in a space with my peers and the excitement that comes with it. If all of that goes off, it's hard to find motivation, even for me as a choreographer. I was unable to get the motivation I needed to continue, and so I thought that if I'm going through the same thing, it's likely that an aspiring dancer suffering in the same manner and could gain from a community that is tight-knit. There was already a community as a result of the YouTube tutorials. But as I said, there wasn't consistency, and to get great at anything, I believe the number one thing you need [in dancing] is consistency in your dance training. This community has allowed us to have monthly challenges, which I think is the best thing we did in the course of DNCR. It's not just uploading tutorials and videos, it's about focusing on a single thing everyone will do together. We're all working at this task and we'll submit our video by an end date. That's where we found inspiration; the thrill of seeing all of your friends posting their videos, and the enlightening or constructive comments which resulted from it. It's all about taking part in the community and truly aiding each other in their growth, which I think is the most hard to accomplish on YouTube, as it felt as if all of us were doing this the tutorials on their own. The community allowed everyone to be part of the same boat, and that was a game changer, I think for myself as a choreographer, and also for the students being capable of learning consistently.
Have you heard any stories of customers from your local community which stand out? Who in your community has been memorable?
One of my favorite customers is a guy known as Ray. He's located in Washington D. C. He's a lawyer and he started dancing in his 40's. He'd come home each morning from work wearing the lawyer's suit and move the kitchen table to the side so that he could practice the hip-hop routines and he ended up dancing with his kids. They created a lot of videos, especially on COVID as they learned the dance routines. The result was him appearing on the Disney Channel show and winning the show. This is a man who, was 40 and was the only person who had never attended a dance class in his entire life, found his passion in the dance community, and was one of the most inspirational people to our members. This kind of success is really important to celebrate because I too started from nothing. It wasn't until 18 years old, but the majority of people do not see it the way they do today. Most people have seen me on stage alongside famous people and in music videos. It's harder to comprehend the difficulties I went through early on. However, when you look at someone who's currently starting and going through it [the journeyalong with you, and witness them come out the other side and have the most amazing adventure, it's so powerful. This really touched everybody in our group. There are countless stories like those, but Ray was a really special one.
Do you use your community and social media users to try out different ideas or new products that you have for your business?
One thing that we're working on constantly is how we help many more people. How do we reach more users? The dancers who want to be great at dancing is a bit tiny, which is why we are trying to provide classes on our platform that can get someone to a professional level. We also aim on making it more and more accessible for the individual who wants to just learn a routine in a few places, those who want to go to the club and feel confident. Additionally, we're doing a lot of stuff with dance fitness. I was an instructor for personal training and consider dance to be one of the means to keep in shape physically and mentally. We're even starting a wedding dance course since I get many requests to choreograph weddings, but I, unfortunately, do not have time for it to do it, which is why the course takes you through everything you need to be aware of. We're trying to be more open to requests I've been getting over the years, where I've always stated that if I had time to do this, it would be amazing and would help many people. The next step is to create more time for these classes.
Do you have a high-level walkthrough of what your strategy for social media looks like today? How has it changed since the first time you started using YouTube?
It's changed a lot over the past ten years. It's changed with the multiple generations of YouTube as well as social media in general. Early on it was not a competitive platform which meant I could only uploading video from my classes. It was that simple. After that, I began to realize the power of video and the connection with creators. I started vlogging behind-the-scenes content, and that was really popular from 2016 to the year 2019. After that, we began with more challenging tasks, such as mastering a routine within only ten minutes. These were really successful.
In the year COVID hit in 2020, we began to see success with TikTok and short-form content. It was a huge change since then. It is my opinion that a lot of dancers' viewers moved to short form, TikTok in particular, since dancing was extremely popular in the area. I was still posting on YouTube however, a large portion of my content was focused on short-form content like fifteen-second dances rather than forty-five seconds to minute-long dances.
What's interesting about social media that people don't understand unless you've been around for several generations of it is that there's not going to be a solution which will work for the rest of time--because regardless of the field that you're in, when you find something that works, eventually everyone other people will follow it. And this is what happened to dancing. The popularity of videos from dance classes exploded and social media was flooded with dance instructors posting their classes. This led me to think of my next step, and it became duplicated. You're always playing this game similar to any other profession that requires you to constantly reinvent yourself and invent and develop new and innovative concepts. And, the only way to find the ideas that are successful is to shoot darts at a board. Most of them will fail and that's why you discover the idea is loved by the majority of people. It's not easy to forecast, so we really do adopt the mindset of if I have some idea I simply run with it. Let's try the experiment, and if it fails then great. Try something different. This is the best advice I could give anybody who is trying to create content. Be patient and don't assume simply because it didn't work the first time that it won't succeed the third or fourth time around. Sometimes, you must tweak your idea or mold it and all of a sudden it happens.
It's a good way to get into the one aspect we did not cover that is social media algorithms. How have algorithmic factors affected your business strategy? Did they affect your ability to reach your customers?
Anyone that's been on Instagram will know that it's the most obvious there. I remember a time that I had the opportunity to publish a flyer for a tour that might get 100,000 or 200,000 likes, and thousands of feedback since it was shown to my entire 3.9 million followers. If I had posted the flyer tomorrow, it would likely get only 10% of that [engagement], because the algorithm has shifted. Therefore, you must be imaginative.
Instead of a brochure now this is a video in which the dance takes place and city names pop up and people can go to the captions to find out more. You just have discover different methods to use the algorithms, since, at the end of the day, you can't control it. So we watch various things [metricsregarding time retention. YouTube is shifting from being primarily an online search engine, to becoming being more of a click-through-rate-based platform. Are your thumbnail and title sufficient to grab people's attention? You could put out the most impressive video ever made and if the thumbnail and title aren't grabbing viewers, your video is likely to fail. When people view for the first 10 seconds of an video but then leave it and click elsewhere, YouTube is going to say 'Hey, everybody loves your thumbnail but your video's performance isn't there, so we're not going to present it to your subscribers. That's how algorithms work in the present. In the end, it's clear that strategies have become more about ideas. I feel pretty confident that we are able to create engaging videos and content but if the video is learning a routine quickly There are millions of options for packaging the thumbnail and title, as well as the length of the video and the style of the video. Each of these factors can impact the quality of content. I was averaging 30 million views on a video for about two years, which is ridiculous. For people who are aware about the monetization issue due to the copyright issue with music, I was not in a position to make money from these videos. But in terms of increasing my audience I was able to do it, that was stupendous. Things have certainly changed since then particularly with TikTok as well as Instagram dominating so much of the market portion.
Since you bring up monetization, did that at any time affect your decision to start DNCR Academy, or was the sole purpose of moving offline from the internet?
It's true that whenever the focus changed away from YouTube to split between TikTok and also Instagram, numbers all over YouTube decreased, which was my primary method of funding was funding the tutorials, as well as the entire process, was via and monetization...
At the time of COVID people were looking for more and more [content] However, there wasn't many monetization opportunities in the channels--it was really possible to scale, and so that was one of the things that made DNCR. Now, we have members that pay a monthly membership fee so we are able to collect these funds and reinvest them back to produce new content and courses. In essence, it's all the activities I wanted to do and for which YouTube monetization wasn't providing sufficient income to be able to accomplish. This was an effective option financially to increase the number of tutorials on the platform as well as to offer students what they wanted for.
How do you deal the burnout that comes with every aspect of social media's producing content?
I don't feel like I'm that old, but when it comes to social media, I've been there since the stone age. It's pretty crazy how many generations have gone and gone. The reasons why people become exhausted is because of a few things. It seems like they had their goals and set their schedules way too high and heavy in the beginning. In particular I recall a time between 2016 and the year 2017 when all my acquaintances decided to record every day Vlogs. And for anyone who has attempted vlogging every day, it's torture. It's a lot of work to keep up with editing, filming and concepting daily is almost impossible. I've always kept my channel at one or two uploads a week. A level that I was able to maintain. I ensured that I was on the road. I also ensured that I had the time off. If there wasn't an amazing music out that week, or I didn't feel inspired to dance, I cancelled my class. I ensured that it [content creation] was something that I could accomplish repeatedly, which enabled me to keep going for a long time.
One thing I've tried to do to prevent burning out is to establish realistic expectations for myself. It's my opinion that in the beginning when you're just beginning out, it's better to concentrate on just one of two or three platforms. Be simple. With YouTube it's a good idea to upload at least twice per week. After that, you can take that content and edit it to a shorter form to post it on Instagram as well as TikTok. Make it easy to manage. It's best to develop slow, but still have the spark of enthusiasm and the desire to keep producing content for five or 10 years later. and then work hard for a few months, burn yourself out, and then fall off. The key is the sameness. It's a long-term strategy, even though it feels as if things are moving at a rapid pace.
Are you able to offer additional suggestions for creators who are trying to use social media to increase customers to their websites or other products, or perhaps even starting their own community?
The most important thing is to figure what you would do if you were your audience, or client's position, what could inspire you to leave the platform and enter into the subscription model or course. I think a lot of times we feel like 'I'll just do this and the other' and think about it through our own perspective. Therefore, I conduct a number of surveys--I ask my followers frequently what direction do you wish to follow the next time around or what you would be the most excited about. There are times when I'm thinking that they want this amazing choreography that is difficult and complicated when they say "Look Bro, I'm just looking for to learn a few moves that I can bust out at a gathering. It's saying 'Okay, this week we're going to master moves that we can perform out in a dance party. It's great to just get in the shoes of others.
It's also about providing value. If you're able to offer value and without asking for anything back and without asking any kind of compensation to build relationship, trust and community, then when you do offer something that's a paid deal or course you already have this trust. You've already offered value, and you've already made their life so much easier by the services you've offered which they're happy to be an integral part of it. Sometimes, I believe we get caught up in making the decision too early without building the relationship with our customers. And that's one of the best aspects of social media: you have the opportunity to engage with your fans throughout the day in whatever way, be it videos on dance or simply sharing your daily life to them and through it building rapport with them, creating a sense of community and after that, you'll be like, "Oh I forgot to mention it's great that you've been enjoying everything you've been doing and you're happy with it, let's see if we go a step further. It's an simple transition to do instead of meeting with you out of the gate and trying to throw the group away.
The majority of creators within the field think that the only method to earn money is through brand and affiliate deals on social media, which you've obviously proven wrong. What advice would you give young creators about diversifying their income?
Yeah, brands and affiliate marketing are one piece in the overall puzzle. The monetization aspect is the other component that makes up the. However, it is best to want to have an element off of social platforms that also provide an income, because, at the end of the day, you never know what algorithm or rules will change. This is something I've learned through the years, as there were times when I was making most of my money from YouTube and was getting the bulk of my earnings through live events and tours in other times, when I was making most of my earnings from TikTok as well as Instagram, and now, it's . At different stages in my career, that thing changed so many times, and If I'd put all my money in one place, and I was just waiting for brand deals or YouTube to modify their algorithms so that I could monetize more heavily and earn more, I'd be stuck. was stuck.
Build a community and start to move your fans off social platforms towards a subscription-based service such as, which you can control the content as well as the your community. You don't need depend on an algorithm to provide your community your content. All it takes is, boom! in DNCR and the users are able to access it at any time they'd like. It gives the power back to the creators. The world is changing fast and it's harder to trust the monetization of brands and brand partnerships as you're not sure what the social media platforms will be next.
Could you explain to us about the part it helped you have control over and control over your future as an artist?
The platform gave us a place to put videos where the rules not change. That's probably the most important aspect. Like I was saying earlier, there was a time that I could get 30 million viewers per film on YouTube. And now, other than perhaps MrBeast as well as a few other instances, it's virtually impossible, even with a channel that has 13 million users. A small portion of those subscribers are served my content. It is really important to, as you're building an online community, get your subscribers to an area where they can use them as well as be able to access your content regularly. On a basic level something like an email list or a text list can be great, but really being part of a group off of social media platforms is the most powerful means to remain in touch as well as to build a the passive income of you create, particularly when you're working with the subscription. It's an excellent option to know that your friends are together in one location that you can talk to them, and they can connect with you, but also for the consistent income stream.
What's the best tip you'd offer to entrepreneurs that is only beginning on the right track?
I'd suggest you heavily research your field. Before you ever post a piece of content on TikTok take a look at one month of videos on Tiktok. It is possible to tinker with your ideas and start making stuff, but I see a lot of time wasted since people don't do some research before they start. You are a fan of fitness, and you want to start an online fitness business, go find the top 10 people working in this field on social media. Watch ten hours of their content and get an understanding of the reasons why they work and then develop your content strategy by analyzing their content.
It's true that right now there's more data than you've been able to access, specifically through YouTube and TikTok, so the answers are right there. It's not necessary to create a new wheel from scratch and do an exercise routine that nobody has done before, surely? However, you must discover a way of doing it that's unique, in your style and with your unique voice. And, you can do that by researching people who you admire, and taking the most valuable things they have to say about themselves as well as adding the stuff you've created, and developing your own content strategy. But I think understanding that you must be humble enough to admit what you're not aware of. It's exactly what I'm doing currently. At least once a year I'll take a few weeks in which I play pretend that I'm a complete novice while I look. What is it that the youngsters on TikTok that are fourteen and blowing up doing differently that we OGs in the industry aren't understanding? It's easy to think that a dancing isn't appropriate or something, but there's a reason for why people identify with it, and I have to know why that is so I can improve myself not just artistically, but also in my business. Spending a significant amount of time to research is crucial when you're developing your strategy for content, and when you've finally got your plan, it's time be able to push the envelope.
Make your own destiny digital goods
The economy of the creator is set to experience a massive growth within online communities as of 2023. Social media platforms are aware of this and respond by developing communities of their own.
As Matt mentioned, in order for creators to reach their audience in a powerful method and generate an income that is passive, they must to get their followers off of social media.
"Brands and affiliate marketing are just one of the pieces in the whole puzzle. Monetization is another piece. It is important to make use of the social media platforms that is in turn generating income since, at the end of the day, you don't be aware of when rules or algorithms are going to be changed. And that's something that I've come to realize over time since there was a time that I made the bulk of my money from YouTube or TikTok however, now it's ."
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